#third space

[estrogenandspite]

“What parts of modern infrastructure are iconically capitalist, such that their conversion to non-capitalist ends becomes a potent symbol?”

This was asked on Cohost by someone I don’t think is on here, but I wanted to share my answer with you all and hear yours too:

Around me already are the husks of malls that have been hollowed out for offices. I even, back in my corporate days, went to one regularly to do training since the other office was located in such a structure.

They’re massive spaces once retrofitted to no longer hold stores, huge, wide open spaces with high ceilings, an “open office floor plan” taken to its ultimate extremes

And all I could think about, every time I went, was what that place would look like if all that space was filled with fun. If it was a giant adult playground with slides from the upper balcony to the lower, and a climbing structure under that massive vaulted ceiling, and swings and zip lines and ball pits strewn about.

That’s my answer. A space that was first a symbol of 1980s-1990s endless consumption that still managed to be a bit of a third space, then converted into yet another monument to office drudgery in late stage capitalism, finally repurposed into a free place where people go to be frivolous and have fun with no goal of profit - and everything good such a massive, free, fun space would imply about the society that elected to build and maintain it.

[luetta]

[justinjacksoncanada]

The reason we post about old arcades is these were the “third spaces” of our youth.

[hyperlexichypatia]

The thing about "lack of third spaces in the U.S." that doesn't get mentioned enough is that it's not just "Capitalists and corporations bought up the commons, privatized public resources, and made people pay to access them."

That's a big part of it. But it's not the only part.

The other part is that middle-class people -- particularly middle-class white, abled people -- willingly forked over money to set up private spaces rather than share public spaces with people of color, disabled people, neurodivergent people, poor people, religious minorities, and other "undesirable" people.

When you look at any article or picture from some point in the 20th century about third spaces that are less common now, consider that depending on exactly where and when in the 20th century U.S. this was, people of color might have been banned from that space by either law or threat of violence or both (or, at minimum, made to feel unwelcome). Physically disabled people probably could not access those spaces (or were institutionalized or kept at home). Visibly non-passing neurodivergent people probably could not access those spaces, because they were institutionalized or kept at home. Two women kissing, a man in a dress, any type of visibly queer or gender nonconforming person would not have been tolerated in that space.

And my point is, these things are not unrelated. The decline of third spaces is not unrelated to civil rights gains.

I'm not saying "Stop talking about the good things of the mid-20th century, don't you know that era also had racism and sexism and ableism and queerphobia?"

I'm saying they're not unrelated -- it's not "This time period was better in some ways, like more third spaces, but worse in some ways, like more racism and ableism." It's "Those good things, those third spaces, those labor unions, those safe neighborhoods, that sense of community, relied upon the systemic exclusion of a dehumanized underclass, and as soon as any civil rights pressure was put on that systemic exclusion, the sense of community crumbled."

The pattern is clear and recurring: Privileged people build a public space for "the community", marginalized people start using it (sometimes after a court case or two), the public place gets a reputation for being "full of" marginalized people, privileged people build a private space they can exclude people from, privileged people abandon the public space, the public space gets neglected and deprioritized because "nobody (who matters) uses it anymore," the public place goes to shit from neglect and possibly closes, the private space gets expensive, privileged people lament the loss of the public space.

Privileged people killed public pools rather than share them with Black people. Mortally wounded public schools rather than share them with people of color and religious minorities. Are trying to kill public libraries rather than share them with queer people and unhoused people and neurodivergent people. Can't revive public transportation for fear of sitting next to poor people. It's white flight all the way down.

The whole "Social democracy is the left wing of fascism" claim is tankie ridiculousness, but like most tankie ridiculousness, there's an underlying grain of truth. In this case, the underlying grain of truth is that widespread support for public services is a much easier sell when people don't think they'll have to share resources or public space with people they consider inferior. It's not a coincidence that some of the countries that provide the highest quality of life for their abled citizens are some of the worst to noncitizens and disabled people.

And it's not like Weird Queer Left-Leaning Types have a great track record of sharing public space with people different from yourselves, either. Y'all can't be normal about someone wearing a yarmulke at Pride. Y'all can't be normal about adults playing board games with kids. There's no way you'd be okay with unsupervised, uncontrolled, unmedicated-by-choice schizophrenic people hanging out and talking to themselves. You cannot handle public third spaces.

Yes, blame corporations and advertisers for privatizing public spaces, but also blame the social prejudice that willingly forks over money to avoid sharing public space with Those People.

[roreadsrandomly]

What do librarians actually do?

Why libraries need librarians | Vox

This article will give you a better perspective on librarians, their roles and responsibilities and how they help us and our society grow.

A TL;DR

Librarians

-act as social workers, interacting with individuals who access libraries for help

-catalogue books and CDs , DVDs and other stuff

-acquire books

-provide a safe space, a third space for individuals.

[keystonewarrior]

We need more public libraries

And

More public third spaces that do not require or pressure you to buy something to justify being there

[hidefdoritos]

GUYS GUESS WHAT

I took my friend (who doesn't get out much and needs to have a quiet retreat space) to the library today.

I FORGOT HOW RAD THE LIBRARY IS.

-My library has private rooms with locking doors that you check out with your library card and then have keycard access to.

-These rooms are made of plexiglass for Obvious Reasons, but still. Rooms.

-I checked out a Lounge space and, guys, it's a balcony.

-It's over the main entrance to the library so you can see everyone coming in and out. The door locks so it's private, but it's also open air to the tall ceilings and has SO MUCH natural light.

-literally so much natural light the one exterior wall is floor-to-ceiling windows with a view over a fountain and a courtyard and the local shopping district. the sunset was rad.

-My laptop connected directly to the WiFi.

-There were so many people there! There are chairs spread throughout and a bunch of computers and people just chilled and hung out!

-My friend was thrilled to be able to navigate a quiet space with strangers who didn't speak to her, and then to have a retreat space.

-My library also has a Makerspace (!!!) and a Cricut machine (!!!) and I can email someone and get trained in how to use it!

-Someone was in the recording booth and I couldn't tell what she was reading but it sounded cool.

-There's a whole room along the side of the upstairs that's just for teens. Like literally just. The sign says that if you're not a teenager you should see the staff for other rooms. There wasn't anyone there when I stuck my head in but there's a giant whiteboard and orb-style chairs and

-sorry I forgot to mention that my balcony has not only a couch but also several big comfy chairs (like, I can sit on my chair and put my feet on it too and balance my book on my knees and it's STILL not too small of a chair) and a couple coffee tables and a corner where the sunlight isn't direct y'all it's so nice

-I'm so glad my tax dollars went to this, guys. We're stuck on campus for Thanksgiving break and we desperately needed to go somewhere that didn't cost money.

-for as much as I get on about the necessity of Third Spaces, you think I'd remember this.

-I also found out my friend likes Agatha Christie novels. She read me a section while I washed dishes tonight, and I think I'm gonna like them too.

[sheridan-le-fanu]

“Third spaces are important” is a true statement. “Capitalism killed third spaces” is only a partially true statement. I think Americans’ culture-wide antisocial behavior is not helping keep those third spaces alive.

Let me tell a little story:

When I was eight, I enjoyed the used book store my grandmother worked at, which had untranslated Japanese manga. Having the vague idea that the books I liked (Full Moon O Sagashite, Jesus I should not have been looking at that as an eight-year-old) were in another language, I joined a free local Japanese conversation class that met on Sunday nights at the local library.

The contingents of this class were:

1) “cringe” but generally respectful animanga-loving teens.

2) Japanese-American children a little younger than me who did not want to be learning another language (because they were six), and their understandably frustrated parents.

3) Older Japanese-American women more so looking for community and people to speak the language with than instructions on how to learn Japanese.

I did not really fall into any of these. Over the years, the members and instructors came and went, and I came and went and came again and became a cringe but hopefully respectful animanga teen. It was a comforting constant in my life growing up, and I’m grateful to have been part of this third space.

I still come when classes are offered. Less so because I want to learn Japanese (though I do), and more because I like being part of my local community.

So yeah. Those random flyers at your local library are calling, tumblrinas. Even if you could learn to crochet or scrapbook or learn Portuguese from the internet, it might be more fun to do it with a random group of older people, kids, and lonely teens.

Please. Third spaces need us to facilitate them.

[vampirepuppyboyfag]

third spaces and building community are so important

[powerrangersystem]

[arctic-hands]

I remember I was all excited to buy my first kite as a kid (it was a monarch butterfly), but I couldn't let it soar very far up because there were power lines all over the park so I think I took it out maybe three times before getting frustrated with not having enough room to get a decent lift so it stayed in the downstairs bathroom where we stored everything and would forget about it until I would use the toilet and see the monarch wing poking out from behind a box before I would finish up and then completely forget about it again. For years.

Something something rebuttal to "kids these days don't go out and play anymore!"

[ladybird-scribbles]

On the Death and Rebirth of Third Places

As is typical of the constant content cycle of the 2020s, recently my social media feeds became filled with discussions on the ideas of "Third Place" and "Third Space". This first began as a screencap of a Twitter thread, then video essays on YouTube, and SubStack articles on the loss of third places and the loneliness epidemic of today. Therefore, I decided to undertake a deep dive of these phenomena...

What is a Third Place?

Oftentimes third places and third spaces are confused, and used interchangeably, however occupy different meanings. We can attribute the concept of the Third Space to post-colonial critical theorist Homi K. Bhabha, who describes it as a metaphorical space of negotiation.

Paraphrasing Bhabha, the three forms of Space can be summarised thus:

First Space - direct spatial experience, physical spaces, such that can be measured

Second Space - spatial representation and the abstract

Third Space - the liminal inbetween, where ideas and people blend together.

The Third Place comes from a similar root concept, but focuses more on the physical space and activity rather than on the abstract. Originally coined by sociologist Ray Oldenburg in The Great Good Place (1989) each Place is defined as such:

First Place - the home, someone's refuge, nest, and point of closest connection with others

Second Place - the workplace, where people spend most of their time

Third Place - congregational neutral ground, a mix between First and Second places that is both and neither.

Traditionally, the Third Place would be a community hub such as the church, or the local pub, as well as leisure spaces such as the library, sports grounds and social clubs. One might also consider shopping centres, cafes,

Hostility in Third Places:

A tweet by Salem @aWildSalem on Twitter - (who uses third space as the term rather than third place, but means the latter)

"People really built a society with no third spaces, made it illegal or unsafe to be outside, and then blamed phone use for making teenagers depressed. I've had this conversation with multiple parents. They want the phones to be the source of the problem because they don't want to admit that we have created a physical environment that is hostile to teenage existence."

It seems clear to me that this does not solely impact today's teenagers, but the entirety of society. Third spaces these days are typically either commercial or digital, both of which sets limitations on users and connections. A coffee shop could be considered a third space, however you still need to purchase something, e.g. a coffee, in order to justify using the space. Public parks are often home to hostile architecture discouraging lingering and loitering - decorative sculptural benches that become uncomfortable after a short period, or no seating at all, have become increasingly common in public spaces to discourage rough sleepers, which not only makes the space intentionally hostile to homeless people, but also to disabled people and to the elderly, who need spaces to sit. Therefore these public spaces become less appealing and more threatening for a significant number of citizens and these spaces limit opportunity for connection as we are pushed away from them.

On the flipside, in recent times there has been a growing an argument that social media is the new Third Place to combat the loss and degradation of physical Third Places. Arguably this can only apply to forums such as Discord, where curating an online community, rather than pushing products and services, is seen as the goal. Discord started as a server platform for gamers, with voice, video, and chat functions, creating a digital communal space like a club would but without the physical and spatial presence of said clubhouse - bringing people together from all across the world over shared interests who may otherwise have never met. Friendships and relationships blossom in the digital realm in ways that were not possible before the internet and instant communication. During the Covid-19 pandemic, digital third places became for many people the only communal space they could occupy without risk, as public spaces required social distancing and limits on numbers, and there was the ever-present risk of coronavirus. Forums and servers continue to provide safe spaces for communities who might otherwise be treated with hostility in the physical world.

The issue with this is that by not having visibility in the physical world, these communities can be pushed further away from it and further into online-only interactions.

Public Space and Performance

How much does your performance affect your perception of the space around you?

The Second Place is centred entirely around the idea of Performance - the workplace is where you are your most productive: creating, manufacturing, providing in order to earn a living and sustain yourself, in the hopes of more freedom as you work up the chain of command. This constant productivity also demands constant performance - in the service sectors, one must be polite, approachable, knowledgeable, well-dressed. For women this can mean a face of makeup and a structured bra, for example.

We return home to our First Place - makeup is wiped off, bra cast aside and discarded on the back of a chair, to be rediscovered tomorrow in a wild rush. We unmask into comfort after providing a Performance from approximately 8am to 5pm, depending on what "work" looks like. Longer, if we have to work overtime or face a lengthy commute.

Therefore, the Third Place is an inbetween of the two - we are naturally expected to behave well as this is a public realm, but how we present ourselves should be to our own comfort levels.

What intrigues me about these topics is not only the death of the Third Place, but the blurring between First and Second Places. Growing up, the idea of somebody working from home was a rare one - my father, a notable exception who worked from home before it was cool, still has his home office in the tiny box room I had once called mine as a toddler (the room still has the same blue carpet and the same farm animals dancing around on the wallpaper). He has worked from home for around 25 years now, and for most of that time, he was the only person I knew of who used home as a workspace. This all changed with Covid-19 and the pandemic - universities rushed to put their students into online learning, workplaces shuttered and sent employees home with laptops to eke out existence on the kitchen counter, surrounded by everyone else at home trying to do the same thing. Pure chaos, perhaps?

However, four years on hybrid working is a highly sought-after job attribute, and people appreciate the flexibility it gives them to avoid as much commuting and to spend much-needed time with loved ones. However, this has come at the expense of home privacy - where does "work" end and "home" begin if you are operating in the same series of rooms day-in, day-out? Does working from home make it harder to switch off from work-mode, and vice-versa? Working from home removes a significant chunk of the performance that office work requires - by this I mean dressing well, platitudes about how peoples' weekends were, listening to the standard radio station rather than playing your own music - although this can look different for everyone - however it also removes some of the connectivity that we need as adults which is harder to come by than when we were at school. In school, you made friends by proximity. In adulthood, that method of friendship seems far more rare. Some people may find their "work bestie" and it blossoms into true friendship, others see work colleagues as people they share a building with and that's the extent of it. Add to this hybrid working, and we see colleagues less frequently and have less chance to make meaningful connections with them. Gone are the conversations clustered around the water-cooler... and sometimes working from home means the only conversation someone might have is a five minute Teams call pushing for a project, where the receiver ends the call and thinks "That could have been an e-mail."

This all feeds back into the growing loneliness epidemic - loneliness was declared a "global public health concern" in the tail end of 2023. Covid-19 has accellerated what was already a burgeoning issue before the pandemic as we were de-socialised over a series of lockdowns.

Much of what I am exploring in this thinkpiece feeds back into each other in a loop - pushing people away from physical Third Places causes hostile environments which pushes people further away, for example. Children not having space to play can lead to lonely, isolated young adults who don't know how to connect in the real world.

On the other hand - I have hope that despite the odds communities persevere and grow, creating new Third Places for people to congregate. I am lucky enough to live in a town with a thriving craft scene, multiple book clubs, and a clear community spirit that has been evident for decades and that the town itself is very proud of. Believe me, it makes a massive difference.

FURTHER READING / VIEWING: - https://www.re-thinkingthefuture.com/architectural-community/a10494-third-spaces-in-architecture-edward-soja/

Chapter 4, Section 4.4 and Chapter 5 in Foucault for Architects, Gordana Fontana-Giusti, 2013

Mina Le - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqjpuUJQFcM - "third places, stanley cup mania, and the epidemic of loneliness"

NotJustBikes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg - "The Great Places Erased by Suburbia (the Third Place)"

Elliot Sang - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ku9csXhvJY - "Nowhere to Go: The Loss of Third Places"

[duct-taped-shoes]

I feel so lucky having a consistent 3rd place at my local skatepark. A lot of friends that don’t skate simply don’t have a 3rd place outside of work and home, and because of that don’t have anyway to just go out and meet new people that have similar interests. 3rd places are pretty essential for healthy social lives and with 3rd places becoming more rare and cost restrictive, skate parks continue to come in clutch and help foster a sense of community and just a fun place to chill outside of work and home.

[puriteenism]

Can't go to the park because dirty can't read new books bc library closed cant garden bcmy mom is like it's too expensive and we don't have space and even if I did it would only take up a little bit of my day bc I don't have an space, Can't hang out with friends bc they all live far away, writing us on my phone too. Can't go out bc there's no third places or it's dangerous or expensive. Life sucks if you're a poor teen

[not-available-for-comment]

Random thought as I’m cleaning my apartment this morning: Much has been said and should be said about the disappearance of “third spaces” and other public meeting spaces in contemporary western culture. But what I don’t see mentioned as often is that PRIVATE meeting spaces are also disappearing.

The cheap apartment my parents lived in in grad school was small, but there was a bump-out big enough for a small dining table and a seating area in the living room. My very expensive current apartment has enough space for a couch OR a card table but not both.

Squeezing higher and higher rents out of smaller and smaller spaces means we’re losing ways to gather with friends and family in our own homes.

[thebeardedgrandma]

This might be controversial but I think for a lot of us we still have plenty of third spaces. We exist in them every day we just don’t treat them as such. Obviously I get that for some people there truly is a physical barrier, ie transportation, accessibility, live in butt fuck nowhere. But I think of me and my friends who live in the same city, with our own transportation to go wherever we please and they do not feel they have third spaces. I am experiencing third spaces every day. What makes a third space isn’t the physical location it’s the way we use the location.

When I compliment the cashier’s scarf, she compliments my bag and we have a conversation. I hold one door for a stranger, they hold the next for me, we exchange gratitudes and we both had a kind moment. I go for a walk around my neighborhood and my local parks and say “beautiful day” to the person who walks past me and most people speak to me positively in return. At the coffee shop I ask that guy what book he’s reading and he spends 10 minutes telling me about how it’s okay but I should really read this other book by this author it’s way better.

Community is all around you but you have to be there and aware and engaging to experience it. Put your damn phone down. Smile at strangers and put in the effort you want to see from others. Ask to help someone carry their groceries to their car. Compliment someone’s ugly sweater even if you don’t really like it. Ask questions you already know the answer to. If I see someone I think looks cool but don’t have any other conversation starter I ask for the damn time of day or what the weather will be like.

Most people you see are starving for that interaction too but if everyone is too pussy to start the conversation we all just starve in silence.